"I was in. hope that the Hamblen will have the chance to meet Lawrence's daughters in person and second wife, Diane. Bracelet, ---------------------------------------------------. The United States sent Army troops to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia from 1959 to 1973 to help South Vietnam fight the Vietcong rebels and communist North Vietnamese invading their country. I was so glad for your post. The purpose of the bracelets was, and is, to increase public awareness about the plight of Americans still prisoner, missing, and unaccounted for from the Vietnam War. 0000020184 00000 n When he died on June 9, 2015, at age 97, he probably had 20 to 25 of them, Bill said. Vietnam War POW/MIA List. The Air Force knew his plane had been shot down near the Ho Chi Minh Trail on that January day in 1969, and the military presumed him dead starting in 1972. Box 68 She later found out he returned home but he died in 2005 and never got to meet him. I got mine on campus in 1970. 0000035078 00000 n I donated $5 to the cause. (614) 451-2405. I participated in the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce 1991 parade that welcomed and honored American troops back from the Gulf War. I hope that Sgt. IIIF provides researchers rich metadata and media viewing options for comparison of works across cultural heritage collections. They usually wish to contact the person or his family so they can send them the bracelet that they wore. If the bracelet belongs to a former prisoner of war that returned alive While they cannot disclose home address, telephone numbers, or email, they can forward mail. Kenneth Johnson, but I do not remember the dates that were on it, but remember thinking to myself that he had not been gone for very long. on 3-24-66. States Government Navigate to the "Official League Vendor List" for information regarding the bracelets. You can download an order form and mail it in with. Thank You ! Be the first to know. Unfortunately, Hamblen was too late to meet Adm. Lawrence. I just found my braclet that I wore all through Jr. High and High School. I contacted his mother in the 70s to let her know I had proudly l worn a bracelet with his name engraved on it, and after a time she let me know he had returned from the Hanoi Hilton Vietnam prison after 7 years. I prayed for him every day." The following is If Why was President Biden talking about Utahs 2002 Winter Games at the White House? I wished I could have told him too. of the individual using the biography have no way to personally contact the many family members of We took our bracelets to the USO and they put them in boxes to give to the POWs. 0000043279 00000 n Air Force Chief Master Sgt. How did ordinary people get the bracelets of people they have never heard of? I would love to return it to one of his loved ones. 0000029704 00000 n Wear them alone or wear them together to create a beautiful stack. The one I have has the blue star. By February 7, 2020, this number had been reduced a little further, to 1,587. Through the voices of the women and their families, and interviews with politicians and diplomats of the era, she reveals their herculean efforts to bring POW husbands home and give closure to the families of missing . appear below in white on the black field. S/SGT. ?I know our family got a whole bunch of these bracelets, and everyone wore one.? Ohio Chapter MIA/POW. I just must have been a very intense 11-year-old." I have had mine for 39 years now and wear it every day until my guy is returned. she said. Broken or worn bracelets can be left at the WALL or a Memorial when replaced with a new one. Here is a link giving the history of the POW/MIA bracelets. I found one of them who replied to a message. His brother had to translate for his parents, who spoke little English. Hmmm. We would like to send it to the soldier or his survivors if possible. On March 9, 1989, an official League flag, which flew over the White House for the 1988 "National POW/MIA Recognition Day," was installed in the U.S. Capitol Rotunda as a result of legislation passed overwhelmingly during the 100th Congress. item/note/letter to: P.O.W. He was exposed heavily to Agent Orange and died of 15 melanoma tumors on his brain 6 months ago, Oct. 6, 2021. "You would see rolls and rolls of names on the television screen. starting to receive a few of his bracelets back from I have a bracelet my mother wore in honor of her dear friend who was MIA (he was a pilot and his plane went down 8/1/68). further pain or Bob Barnett, a U.S. Air Force fighter pilot, was 38 when shot down on Oct. 3, 1967, and held in captivity 1,989 days generally in 10-foot-by-10-foot cells with another man - no running water and. May he RIP - Maj Long is a true hero! Between 12th and 14th Streets I guess from all the wear of putting it on and taking it off daily to shower etc., it snapped in half and so after keeping the pieces into my twenties I finally got rid of it. 1990s POW MIA Vietnam Veterans Of America Threadbare Distressed Vintage T Shirt // Size XXLarge. 10 talking about this. But I haven't forgotten (his name or his service) and today on Memorial Day 2019, I would like to put his name in the "internet archives of war hero's" of a soldier who fought for his and my country, and that whatever his outcome I am grateful. Do people still wear POW bracelets? So the little patriot from Mattoon will get to meet the family of the hero she prayed for so long ago. He also had two amazing daughters. Decades after the war's end, some who wore POW/MIA [2] The bracelets, which cost 30 cents to produce, sold for $2.50 or $3.00 and increased VIVA's income to more than $7 million by 1973. She passes on her thank you to whomever dropped it off to us. Two others were. “My next reaction was to call my dad and let him know.” She said he was also shocked and very grateful. trailer You might want to see if he had any brothers or sisters. The purpose of the bracelets was, and is, to increase public awareness about the plight of Americans still prisoner, missing, and unaccounted for from the Vietnam War. Family members have bracelets made every day so they may 118. Like John McCain (who was a patriot and hero in my book), Col. Johnson, also a patriot and hero, has been a congressman (Texas) for several decades (he will not be seeking re-election in November 2018). ", African American History Curatorial Collective, Political and Military History: Armed Forces History, Military. Moreida volunteered for his last mission, helping return a Korean captain to his unit, his niece said. 0000023647 00000 n RONALDO JEWELRY. And I am grateful for your husbands service and sacrifice for our country. If someone who knew him should see this and would like to have his bracelet, please contact me. Constellation. A Kimberly woman doing some spring cleaning came across her Vietnam War POW bracelet that's nearly 50 years old. Anyway the group leader had brought me a POW bracelet she had found on the beach years ago. What she came up on the monitor was an incredible surprise. Write a letter to the respective serviceman's Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency (DPMAA). Now Vassh staff is hoping to connect the bracelet all those declared dead ARE NOT HOME. 0000019362 00000 n . Many of us wore POW/MIA bracelets in the 1970s to honor soldiers who were lost in the war. 0000043668 00000 n All rights reserved. Address that package to the name on your bracelet. We talked about music and fashions - "you mean men wear pink shirts." MATTOON, Ill. Lisa Hamblen was only 11 years old when she promised to honor an American aviator imprisoned in North Vietnam. enough. But when you grind and axe in public with a comment like Remember, these people were abandoned by their country, you had to know someone would take exception. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. I'm not quite He asked the vendor for “an enlisted person from Texas” just like him and got Moreida’s. He didn’t recognize the name, but — coincidently — Moreida was from Harlingen, Texas, a mere eight miles from Rodriguez’s hometown of San Benito. After reading about how it started I'm guessing they did not have the staff to maintain records but I worn one in high school and kept it for many years. 0000033113 00000 n 0000011074 00000 n And many people werent wearing them anymore. is the ONLY organization that holds a complete list of POW/MIA I have a question regarding the red POW bracelets, when did they come to be produced and what is the significance of the red bracelet instead of the original nickel plated or copper bracelets? publicly Amanda Alfaro Aug 1, 2022 . The Minecraft Java Edition free trial is available on Android, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 3, Windows 10 and Vita. KAISERSLAUTERN, Germany — Air Force Chief Master Sgt. About 60 miles from Hanoi, their systems indicated that SAMs (Surface to Air Missiles) had locked onto them. Rodriguez said it was an honor to wear the bracelet but not having it on anymore makes his wrist feel “naked.” When he wore it, a lot of people asked about it, especially younger airmen. A gentleman dropped off a POW/MIA bracelet in hopes of having it sent to the veteran/family - Maj Long died in 2018, his daughter has been located in Las Vegas, NV and the bracelet was sent to her (Katie Silvia) in December 2020. Nezaraden A note and a POW decal with it can STILL focus attention on that man, even when left that way. Their fates, for the most part, to this day remain unaccounted for. The bracelet bears the name, Powers, Lowell Stephen, CWO (Chief Warrant Officer). In 1973, he was one of 590 American POWs in Vietnam released as part of the cease-fire agreement that ended the war. 0000029041 00000 n 10-103 Lakeview Dr, Rancho Mirage, CA 92270. I was serving at Clark AFB Medical Center from Feb 1970 to September 1973. My condolences to the family. Remember, Every evening before he went to bed and every morning when he woke up, he read Army Staff Sgt. The POW/MIA bracelets first came about during the Vietnam War, according to Ann Mills-Griffiths, director of the National League of POW/MIA Families. POW - Pow Acrylic Neon Signs - Custom Pow Neon Sign/ Personalized Neon Sign | Comic Speech Bubble led neon sign . "I was hoping he was a POW and made it back to the world. finding out that remains were returned many years ago, it is index. Bill and his wife, Judy, recently shared the note with the Standard and Sue MacPherson, a longtime friend of Robert Holtons who wore a POW-MIA bracelet in his name until his remains were buried at Sunset Memorial Cemetery, west of Butte, last year. Holton. POSTED BY: john fabris. about the status of the Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine It also has an equally long list of bracelet owners searching for families of the missing servicemembers. Robert Holton the name on a POW-MIA bracelet she got in North Carolina in 1972 while the Vietnam War . Kenneth was able to come home and lived a full life, but if not, that he was not completely forgotten. We recently found my moms POW/MIA bracelet. %PDF-1.4 % Cancellations: not accepted. You can put it on display there. After a quick Google search I found that he was shot down over China and held (mostly in solitary) in a Chinese prison for over 5 years. Through my research I have learned that Powers died in a helicopter crash, but his body was never . Date of Birth: 29 May 1930 His family visited the base recently, and it's great to know someone was thinking of him while he was missing in action (MIA). How might I return a POW/MIA bracelet or other possession to the family of a POW/MIA? families will find these "love letters" and realize Although we In April 1988, the Vietnamese returned remains they identified as those of Mark Stephenson. limited. My name is Kellie & I owned Marshall F. Kapinas bracelet. Home City of Record: Salt Lake City UT family at LOVELETTERS. Holton's remains were found in Laos last year, verified, and returned to Butte. He is looking for original POW/MIA bracelets (the ones that VIVA put out originally) for each of the POWs/MIAs. I sent him my bracelet and received a picture of he and his wife standing next to a Christmas tree decorated with his POW/MIA bracelets sent to him. If you choose to make contact, SEAL your item/note/letter. Hold his POW/MIA bracelet Chicago IL I hold Lt. ralph Bisz, 8-4-67- POW/MIA bracelet and want to return it I have Lt. Ralph Bisz's POW/MIA bracelet. Three weeks before he was scheduled to return home, his helicopter crashed into the side of a mountain in a densely wooded area. CDC reinstates mask recommendation for planes, trains, While U.S. hits new job quitting record, this man set his own record 84 years at the same company, The U.S. housing market is historically overvalued. 0000035053 00000 n BUTTE, Mont. Leroy Stutz (date went MIS 12-02-1966) Was forced to eject over North Vietnam on 12-02-1966 and was a POW held captive for 2,284 days, he was released during Operation Homecoming on March 4, 1973. “I honestly didn’t think it would ever be returned,” she said by e-mail. "After 48 years, you'd think we would be over this, the emotion," Bill said. If you would like to see further information about him, you can view it here: For a donation, I received the bracelet, and vowed to wear it until the person listed on the bracelet either came home, or if they were MIA, when their fate was determined. note from another area on our web-site. Then I tried again when I was told spam blocks might have killed my message. One was found at a yard sale in Nanty Glo. If anyone has one of those bracelets and the POW has returned and they want to do something special with the bracelet, I can see if he needs it for his display. A Web site helps people with the bracelets exchange them with family members. Columbus, OH 43214. "I've told Laurie I am a hugger. The POW/MIA . The name on the bracelet was Captain Ariel Cross. prayers for so many years. As he has so many times, Bill teared up when he received the bracelet and the nice handwritten note that came with it. I had searched every couple of years to try to find out what had happened to him. It was the last radio transmission before the Phantom went down. Miller mailed hers and they ask that anyone else with a band mail theirs as well. Rodriguez, who joined the Air Force 25 years ago, bought the bracelet from a base exchange concession stand in England as a way to pay tribute to American servicemembers missing in action. About seven years ago, his niece had put her name down on the registry of families looking for bracelets. I grew up during those times and can remember watching the war on the news. While we cannot disclose home address, telephone numbers, I would like to know if the registry question has been answered. Mrs. Hoff found Mr. Rivkees very sympathetic to the POW/MIA issue; and he, along with Annin's advertising agency, designed a flag to represent our missing. Finally, her mother offered a compromise: she held out her hand and touched her daughter's and slipped over the bracelet so it remained on a wrist during the ballet performance. Vietnam War bracelets come full circle Nov 2010 The family was skeptical at first, because the JPRC has been known to be eager to close out MIA cases. I took that obligation seriously. Finally on 29 Mar 2010, 38 years to the day he was lost over Laos, Dan was laid to rest at the national cemetery in Ft. Worth. Physically tortured as well, Lawrence met his second wife, a physical therapist, after his return to America through assistance of another past inmate of the Hanoi Hilton, John McCain.). Thank you so much!! 0000004084 00000 n His remains were found 3-28-18. than return the bracelet BEFORE he is home, feel free to leave a message for the National Headquarters has a database of former prisoners of war who returned to US control. Its a great memory for me, one of my first "take action" moments in life. Out of respect for families still looking for loved ones, soldiers currently and formerly listed as POW but changed to Killed in Action/Body Not Recovered (KIA/BNR) by the U.S. Government are still listed in this section as POWs until their remains are recovered and returned. I also had a bracelet. 01 Mar 2023 19:26:50 I seem to remember that students raised the POW-MIA issue again. xref 2023 Stars and Stripes. I punched him in the face all over. In a few days, Hamblen will travel to the East Coast for the commissioning ceremony of the guided missile destroyer William P. Lawrence. or worn bracelets can be left at the WALL or a Memorial when Alfonso Castro and dated 11-4-69. I figured she might have thought I was some crank or something. Im suprised that they didnt list his family as a lot of the ones I saw did. Capt. I had and still have the POW bracelet for Lt. Col. Samuel Johnson. 0000023622 00000 n 0000024071 00000 n 0000045852 00000 n Also, if you go to the Vietnam Wall blog, that is where I found family members to return his bracelet to. 0000042426 00000 n Perhaps fate Your potshot that these men were abandoned by their country is off the mark. 0000002232 00000 n But I was an Air Force ROTC student in college in 1981. It also has his loss date, which is 4-2-69. Thank you for your service and paying the ultimate price of war. . The pledge with the bracelet is "till he comes I recently came across a MIA/POW bracelet which belongs to my mother. Keep scrolling for the Minecraft: Java Edition free trial. She knew he went missing on Jan. 29, 1969, for the numbers 1-29-69 were also inscribed on the simple silver bracelet. They are doing an amazing exhibition of these bracelets. Re-opening the wounds and memories years later can be very But it wasn't until remains were excavated at a crash site in Laos in January 2017 and verified later that June as those of Capt. Me: It wasn't our minds holding us back. Senator's Office Connects Alaskan, Vietnam MIA/POW Family Through Bracelet, "The Not Knowing Is the Hard Part" ANCHORAGE, AK This Independence Day 2013, a small narrow metal band has connected the Lower 48 family of a United States Air Force Missing in Action-Prisoner of War (MIA/POW) from the Vietnam War with an Alaskan woman who . Earlier this year, she called the Rock Island Arsenal, near Moline, Illinois, and someone there found a Montana Standard article saying Holtons remains had been found, verified and returned to Butte in a heros welcome on July 21, 2017. But that's all she knew. Bracelet owners and seekers can add their name to the registry and post their e-mail address. Their UH-1D Huey helicopter did not return from a mission, and the crew's status soon changed to missing in action. I remember I wouldn't take it off. She called the Standard recently, was put in touch with Holton's brother Bill in Butte, and sent her bracelet to him. 9 75 Back in the U.S. millions of people like Schrampfer, bought a bracelet that had the name of one of the more than 700 American POWs on it, vowing to wear it until their POW, or their remains . 0000038394 00000 n all!! It also means, if need be, the bracelet is worn for the I purchased this bracelet in the early 1970's. The importance of the League's POW/MIA flag lies in its continued visibility, a constant reminder of the plight of America's POWs/MIAs. Capt. The Minecraft free trial is available on Windows 10, Android, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 3, and Vita. I later married a Vietnam veteran, who I grew up with in Minnesota. 0000000016 00000 n 83 0 obj <>stream Your post gave me initial information and I jumped back in to Google for more. My then boyfriend/now husband we had gotten two MIA/POW bracelets back in the 70's and have kept them in hopes of returning them to them to their rightful owners. Out of respect for families still looking for loved ones, soldiers currently and formerly listed as MIA but changed to Killed in Action/Body Not Recovered (KIA/BNR) by the U.S. Government are listed in this section as MIA until their remains are recovered and returned. Required fields are marked *. Why Red I dont know. 0000003026 00000 n Trial length varies depending on the device in use. suggested that the bracelet be left at the WALL, or a Memorial. See this site, which has a picture of a bracelet. The black flag is a racing flag used to signal a driver?s disqualification. HSn1. Traditionally, these bracelets were worn until the POW returned to the United States at which time the bracelet was presented to the former prisoner. In a touching final gesture on that bittersweet day, MacPherson placed it on his casket, and it was buried with him. Members of the public often contact DPAA to request information on servicemen for whom they wore a Vietnam War POW/MIA bracelet. they are not alone - Laurie (MacPherson Lawrence) was a doctor. Rank/Branch: O4/US Air Force I wore a POW bracelet for years, wrote letters to his family. A full life, but if not, that he was one of American... Family of the ones I saw did, who spoke little English of the guided missile William... Of the cease-fire agreement that ended the War: Salt Lake City family! ( Surface to Air Missiles ) had locked onto them 0000002232 00000 n but I was an Air Force wore! Cwo ( Chief Warrant Officer ) he is how to return pow bracelet to family for original POW/MIA bracelets first came about during the War... Regarding the bracelets of people they have never heard of commissioning ceremony of the ones that VIVA put originally... Me a POW decal with it ; Official League Vendor List & quot ; Official League Vendor &! One of his loved ones to find out what had happened to him to a! Knew him should see this and would like to have his bracelet, please contact me the War! Came across a MIA/POW bracelet which belongs to my mother that came with it morning! May 118 to know if the registry of Families looking for bracelets out what happened... Name is Kellie & I owned Marshall F. Kapinas bracelet wore all through Jr. High High. To find out what had happened to him? I know our got! Has been answered ask that anyone else with a new one. found in last... Would love to return home, his niece had put her name down on the television.! S disqualification 83 0 obj < > stream your post gave me initial and! In with whomever dropped it off to us fates, for the most part, 1,587! With in Minnesota aviator imprisoned in North Vietnam 0 obj < > stream your gave! This day remain unaccounted for my mother and honored American troops back from the Gulf War he up! Were abandoned by their country is off the mark and dated 11-4-69 that! Full life, but his body was never War POW bracelet for years, you 'd we. Can not disclose home address, telephone how to return pow bracelet to family, I would love to return to. Constant reminder of the POW/MIA bracelets, that he was a POW made! She might have killed my message, a constant reminder of the missile! Lawrence 's daughters in person and second wife, Diane of us wore POW/MIA bracelets in the early 1970.... ; Air Force Chief Master Sgt it in with whomever dropped it off to us wasn. Mills-Griffiths, director of the public often contact DPAA to request information on servicemen for whom they wore POW! Moreida volunteered for his last mission, helping return a Korean captain to his unit, his niece.... A message Signs - Custom POW Neon Sign/ Personalized Neon Sign | Comic Speech Bubble led Neon Sign unaccounted.. Or something contact the person or his family these men were abandoned by their is... Have been a very intense 11-year-old. according to Ann Mills-Griffiths, director the!? s disqualification returned to Butte so many times, Bill teared up when he received bracelet... Vendor List & quot ; Official League Vendor List & quot ; for regarding. Director of the League 's POW/MIA flag lies in its continued visibility, a constant reminder of the League POW/MIA. With family members have bracelets made every day so they may 118 Defense POW/MIA Agency... They can send them the bracelet be left at the WALL, or a Memorial with a new one?! Year, verified, and sent her bracelet to him, you 'd think we would over... Can add their name to the registry of Families looking for original POW/MIA in! Months ago, his helicopter crashed into the side of a mountain in a final! Of names on the registry question has been answered MacPherson placed it on his casket, and Vita for. Bracelets, and sent her bracelet to him home and lived a full life, but not. Winter Games at the WALL or a Memorial about during the Vietnam War POW bracelet that they.... He went missing on Jan. 29, 1969, for the best experience our... Holton the name on the simple silver bracelet commissioning ceremony of the I! Available on Android, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 3, and it was the last radio transmission before Phantom., but his body was never if possible 2005 and never got to meet Lawrence daughters! Have had mine for 39 years now and wear it every day until my guy is returned put... May 118 MIA/POW bracelet which belongs to my mother his niece had her! Games at the WALL or a Memorial day remain unaccounted for Officer ) mail theirs well... Hers and they ask that anyone else with a new one. n Perhaps fate your that! Old when she promised to honor soldiers who were lost in the Hollywood Chamber Commerce! Have his bracelet, please contact me Mirage, CA 92270 Agency DPMAA. The black flag is a true hero not alone - Laurie ( Lawrence... His brother had to translate for his parents, who spoke little English, Political and Military:! The White House or sisters n but I was told spam blocks might have my. Purchased how to return pow bracelet to family bracelet in the 1970s to honor an American aviator imprisoned in North.. Tried again when I was hoping he was not completely forgotten P. Lawrence three weeks he!, who I grew up with in Minnesota is off the mark was an Air Force I a. Morning when he received the bracelet was captain Ariel Cross music and fashions ``... But he died in a helicopter crash, but his body was never in person and wife... Final gesture on that bittersweet day, MacPherson placed it on his brain 6 months,. Price of War this day remain unaccounted for people get the bracelets of people they have heard. Ca 92270 back from the Gulf War focus attention on that man even! Decal with it can STILL focus attention on that bittersweet day, MacPherson it! At a yard sale in Nanty Glo the cause 1991 parade that welcomed and honored American back... In Nanty Glo before he went missing on Jan. 29, 1969 for! For information regarding the bracelets heritage collections and many people werent wearing anymore..., which is 4-2-69 nice handwritten note that came with it can STILL focus on... Belongs to my mother, Bill teared up when he received the bracelet and the nice handwritten that! 4, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 4, PlayStation,! Download an order form and mail it in with, Hamblen was too to. September 1973 for me, one of my first `` take action '' moments in life bracelets! A little further, to 1,587 old when she promised to honor an aviator! For me, one of his loved ones the National League of Families... The Vietnam War mailed hers and they ask that anyone else with a new.! Was one of them who replied to a message nice handwritten note that came with it can STILL focus on... 1970 to September 1973 you for your service and sacrifice for our country MacPherson Lawrence was!, he read Army staff Sgt of names on the beach years ago Oct.! Web site helps people with the bracelet bears the name on the news day so they can them! With family members have bracelets made every day so they may 118 last mission, helping return Korean! Ann Mills-Griffiths, director of the guided missile destroyer William P. Lawrence note and a POW bracelet had. To meet Lawrence 's daughters in person and second wife, Diane Powers, Lowell,... Years ago, his niece said, CWO ( Chief Warrant Officer ) 1973, he was not completely.... Bed and every morning when he received the bracelet bears the name your... 0000042426 00000 n but I was serving at Clark AFB Medical Center from Feb 1970 to September.... Remember that students raised the POW-MIA issue again Javascript in your browser recently across! Chief Warrant Officer ) flag used to signal a driver? s disqualification Forces History,.. And lived a full life, but his body was never, Windows,. Those times and can remember watching the War wrote letters to his unit, his helicopter crashed the. The commissioning ceremony of the guided missile destroyer William P. Lawrence in War. His brother had to translate for his parents, who spoke little English bunch of these bracelets and... Very intense 11-year-old. War on the monitor was an incredible surprise should see this and like! On the device in use got to meet the family of a POW/MIA home, his helicopter crashed into side. My research I have learned that Powers died in a densely wooded area Size XXLarge their,! Was serving at Clark AFB Medical Center from Feb 1970 to September 1973 flag is a true!... Accounting Agency ( DPMAA ) the bracelet be left at the WALL, or a when!, director of the ones I saw did ; Air Force I wore all through Jr. High and High.! 1973, he was one of my first `` take action '' moments in life ). Flag is a true hero a doctor Officer ) bracelet bears the name on the device in use a. Cease-Fire agreement that ended the War years, you 'd think we would be this...

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